Philadelphia Atheists Meetup Message Board › Chambersburg City Council removes Nativity Display over Atheist Request
| George | |
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In the news over the past week: The Pennsylvania town of Chambersburg has for years had a traditional Nativity scene displayed in its Memorial Square, which is public property.
A member of Pennsylvania Nonbelievers (a chapter of American Atheists), sent a letter to City Council requesting that a simple sign be placed on the square honoring Atheist Veterans. The council's response was to ban all non-secular displays, rather than allow this one. Their concern was that any extremist group could then demand to have a display posted on public property. Unsurprisingly, there were angry responses from many Christians, some of whom aimed their vitriol at atheists in general, and at Carl Silverman, the individual who requested the sign. On Saturday there was a protest to demand restoration of the Nativity, which was attended by around 100 people according to estimates. Links PA Nonbelievers Blog: Chambersburg Borough Council decides nativity scene must be removed from Memorial Square fountain area Letter from Chambersburg Area Atheist Veteran News Outlets: Group marches on Chambersburg's public square to restore Nativity scene banned by borough council Chambersburg bans town-square displays over non-Christian request Americans United: Christmas Clash: Religious Right Exploits Battles Over Symbols And Songs |
| Ferit Tüzer | |
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good, this is an example of things we should be on the lookout for, like that nativity display at public property.
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| George | |
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What's interesting is that this case was not a demand for removal, but a request for inclusion, which nevertheless started a media firestorm.
Many religious critics are mischaracterizing Mr. Silverman's action as one forcing the creche out of its traditional location. |
| Matt Juba | |
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George-
About 50 people showed up to protest. Not the 100 or 200 the misleading religious media wants everyone to believe. The following week, a "organized religious protest" barely got 50 people to show up. |
| John Zerillo | |
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George--Keep up the good fight! My goal is the decline of religion one creche at a time. The protesters are going to hate us anyway. We should make every effort to get governments to remove these propaganda props. Go George!
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| erik | |
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As an atheist I have to say that actively trying to bring down religion makes us as bad as religious jihadist and others who are so sure their way is the right way. When you have religion being used for public policy or any other facet of life where belief in magic is dangerous, then we have a valid reason to fight against it. Actively going after nativity scenes makes us look like a bunch of assholes. Plus I like the idea of free speech so a nativity doesn't bother me if you let others have their say. Maybe next x-mas instead of stealing a little bit of the holiday magic for our Christian friends we just ask to put up a tree with Darwin fish ornaments.
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| Janice | |
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It should be noted that the goal of the PA Nonbelievers in this case was not to "bring down" religion, but to have a place at the table. PAN simply asked to put up their own signs in the same area as the other holiday display. Instead of letting the atheists have equal time, the town council of Chambersburg chose to deny all groups the right to create holiday displays in the town center.
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| John Zerillo | |
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The Christians are already insulting me. They rather take down their Nativity than allow atheists a display. History and scripture tells me that Christians are intolerant of infidels. Many Christians are obnoxious when the topic of our atheism comes up for intense or serious discussion. In the past they just killed us. I do not sympathize with passive atheists when they are tolerant of giving Christians or other religions preferred treatment.
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| erik | |
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Just as I'm not tolerant of atheists that would adopt the strategy of our detractors. A smug and arrogant theist is as intolerable as a smug and arrogant atheist. Perhaps its just the fact I'm a Libertarian and believe everybody has a right to their own beliefs as long as they don't hurt or infringe upon others. Or maybe its because I have several Christian friends who respect my beliefs and I return the favor. No doubt there are many theists who would love to see our heads on pikes. This is what we call an irrational and intolerant person. Religion gives them the convictions to do evil. Shouldn't we try to stand above that and respect theists who just want to live their lives and not force control over ours? As an atheist I like to think we have reason in our court. The belief that all theists are against us or that we have the right to smash down their ideas is the resort of the intellectually lazy and the fear mongers.
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| Janice | |
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Well said, erik.
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