Indianapolis Church of Freethought

Greetings atheists,

My name is Jon and I am starting an Indianapolis branch of the northern Texas based Church of Freethought. The COF is a nationally recognized, tax exempt religious organization for freethinkers, atheists, agnostics, and deists which bases its doctrines off of scientific research instead of superstitious dogma.

Our goal is to provide and service a fellowship of free thinking individuals by providing discussion groups, social activities, and various classes. We will also be providing childcare and non theistic sunday school classes for children.

I have read on this board that many of you are interested in morally ethical and evangelical atheism, and many non theistic parents worry about moral education for their children. I believe you will find that this is a perfect venue for such practices and I hope to meet many of you in the future.

As the Indianapolis Branch of the COF is just starting we need help from interested individuals with our planning committees, if you are interested in becoming involved on the ground floor of this exciting organization then I encourage you to please email me at jonrak81@ hotmail.com.

we need dedicated people to help get our organization off the ground as quickly and efficiently as possible, previous experience is not necessary, only individuals who want to be involved in a positive atheist/freethought movement!

Because I am not familiar with the prevalence of this message board among your members I have taken the liberty of copying and pasting this post into an email which will be sent to all of you. My apologies if you find this redundant.

I should also mention that this is not an attempt to "shanghai" the members of this meetup group, I look forward to attending your upcoming meetings.

Thank you all for your interest and help.

Sincerely,

Jon

I'm in!

Hi. I admit that I definitely have a healthy curiosity about the COF....however it does seem a dichotomy to me. I wish someone had video taped my facial expressions as my brain tried to be comfortable with the words "church" and "Freethought" in the same sentence.

/admits traumatic upbring in a baptist family.

Tiffany -

I agree that the concept of church needs a healthy dose of redemption...just of the freethought kind!

Here's a recent article that does a good job addressing the issue you raise: http://nymag.com/news...

The website for the North Texas Church of Freethought has an archive of its past services that you can listen to to see what they sound like: http://www.churchoffr.... I particularly enjoy their "Moment of Science" (as opposed to a moment of silence).

Hope those help...

- Todd

Jon, Tiffany, Todd,

"Count me in!" This is great news! I have been listening to the NTCOF podcasts of their past services and I am sold on the concept of a local freethought church. Using the word "church" in the same sentence with freethought is a little weird! :-) I will email Jon and let him know I am available for planning, support, etc.
Hope to meet everyone in the group eventually!

Sam :-)

I agree the "church" term makes me hesitate. Most times that I exchange communication with Christians, they like to make statements that atheists are people of "faith," just like them. This happened a few days ago during a panel discussion I attended. I had to point out to the speaker the err in those types of statements. And sometimes they argue that atheism is a religion...stuff like that. I think it would be hypocritical of me to explain that atheism is not religion, and my use of "faith" really isn't like their use of "faith," but then turn right around and belong to the Indianapolis Church of Freethought.

I appreciate and support the creation of organizations that promote the building of "community" for the "not religious". Good luck.

A few rebuttals come to mind on your comments, Bryan:

1) Freethought is a process based around certain principles, not a set of beliefs. It may be unusual, but I wouldn't rule out a freethinking theist/deist. They just wouldn't be of the you're-going-to-hell variety typically associated with those labels.

2) While religion and faith are often treated synonymously, they are not the same thing. The North Texas Church of Freethought is just one example of how it is possible to have a community focused on providing its members inspiration, meaning, comfort, etc. (a/k/a "religion") without employing the concept of faith.

3) Atheism doesn't define who anybody is, only what they aren't. Nobody gets inspiration, meaning, comfort, etc. by NOT believing in a god. I don't see any problem in telling somebody, "I don't see any reason to believe in a god and I really enjoy belonging to a church that manages to meet my religious needs without relying on belief in a god."

4) I see a lot of utility in using loaded terms like "church" and "religion" that bring positive images to mind in most people. There are no secular equivalents ("community" is too general; "non-religious" even more so). It helps our cause by showing that our human needs, morality, etc. are the same as everyone else which, in our current society, makes people's transition away from dogma that much easier. Dogmatists effectively use that strategy all the time: creation science, intelligent design, alternative health care, etc. So should we!

There are a lot of approaches to dealing with human needs and human psychology. If this “church” and “religion” approach works for you, by all means, use it. I personally am not comfortable with your approach.

I initiated IndyAtheists with the expressed purpose to be a beginning of providing for the human needs of non-believers - first by just giving non-believers the opportunity to talk to other non-believers and to make friends with other non-believers and to give the non-believers an alternative to traditional "church" communities. After all, when I left the church, I pretty much left all my friends and all my social activities and my physical and emotional support structures behind. Later, I put my support, and my money, with Reba Boyd-Wooten and the Center for Inquiry because Reba is attempting to create an organization that fills the void when it comes to "human needs."

And, btw, the one thing the original members of IndyAtheists said they had in common, more than anything else, was a distaste for organized religion.

But I’ve always said that I expect “non believers” to form different groups with different twists. We are not rubberstamp copies made from a single mold. We have different perspectives.

My perspectives come from my personal experiences, from my reading, from my study, from the experiences of others I’ve talked to, from my talking to psychologists and talking to a couple of psychiatrists. IMO, psychology, in its current state, is very much an art…but still, there is some solid science, but some not so solid science and some quackery. And there are many sources of practical information that are worth investigation and consideration. IMO, the person who seeks out this information and gives it consideration is better prepared than the person that doesn’t when it comes to shaping their perspectives.

I do not exclude the need for and usefulness of a type of "spirituality." I embrace it. It's not a spirituality based on the supernatural, but a spirituality based on the seeking of and maintenance of "peace of mind" using whatever techniques work. IMO, and I think I'm stating the obvious, without attaining a form of "peace of mind," life isn't worth living. But the personal philosophies that sustain me probably aren't the same as yours.

While you view "church" and "religion" as desirable and beneficial to you, I don't want it for myself.

There's no arguing with results. If belonging to the Indianapolis Church of Freethought appeals to you and works for you, then use it.

“Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.' Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,' enter on and abide in them.”

The Buddha, Kalama Sutta


“We do not receive wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness, which no one else can make for us, which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world.”

Marcel Proust

Let me suggest a change of focus from ourselves to the majority of people in this world. Most people don't want to think for themselves and want someone else to tell them what to do. Let's dogmatize freethought for them and provide an institution for them to join that indoctrinates them and future generations. Until we do that, more insidious dogmatic institutions will continue to dominate our societies, at least until one of them blows up the planet and there are no longer any societies.

"at least until one of them blows up the planet and there are no longer any societies."

Fear mongering?

"Most people don't want to think for themselves and want someone else to tell them what to do."

Uh, very scary language Todd.

"Until we do that, more insidious dogmatic institutions will continue to dominate our societies,"

So let's create a dogmatic institution???

"Let's dogmatize freethought ."

Is this an oxy-moron?

I won't be doing this and I won't be recommending it and I don't support you doing it.

Todd, I spend all my time encouraging people to use independent thought and this statement of yours is completing contrary to my own personal principles.

I rescind my good wishes. If these statements represent your types of principles, then we shouldn't have anything to do with your organization, IMO.

Theses are NOT good morals and these are not good ethics. And if humanity can't survive by adopting good morals and good ethics, then I guess humanity won't survive.

I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe you just wrote these things.